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Maharlika, ang Dakilang Lahi

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Ang pangalang Pilipinas ay ibinigay sa atin ng dayuhang mananakop na mga Espanyol sa karangalan ng Hari ng Espanya na si Haring Felipe. Samakatwid kapag sinabi nating tayo ay mga Filipino ang ibig sabihin lamang ay mga tauhan tayo o sakop ng Haring ito o kaya ay mga tagapagmana niya.

Hindi ba't ang pananatili ng paggamit ng pangalang ito ay isa na ring masasabing dagok sa ating lahi? Hindi ba at ito rin ang isa sa pinagmumulan ng pagtawag ng kalayaan ng mga kapatid nating Moro sapagkat kailanman ay hindi sila nasakop ng bansang Espanya o Amerika kung kaya't sila ay hindi sakop ni Felipe. Samakatwid sila ay hindi Filipino at ang bansa nila ay hindi Pilipinas.

Pero anu nga ba ang dapat na ipalit sa pangalang ito na marka ng pagka alipin. Kapag naghanap ka sa Yahoo Answers ang pinaka napiling sagot doon ng walong tao ay Republika ng Bukang Liwayway. Subalit para sa akin bagama't may mga nagkomento na ang salitang Maharlika raw ang ibig sabihin ay elepante, ito pa rin ang aking napipiling pangalan na karapat=dapat na tawag sa ating lahi.

Ang mga maharlika ang unang namamahala sa ating bansa bago pa man dumating ang mga kastila. Ang literal na ibig sabihin niyo ay "noble" o marangal na lahi. Kung elepante man ang ibig sabihin nito sa ibang salita, anung masama? Hindi ba at malakas ang mga elepante at tanda rin ng karangalan.

Hindi man natin lubos na napapansin pero sa mga simpleng simbolo at pagpapalit nito maaaring maibalik natin at maangking muli ang pagkatao ng ating lahi. Mas naisin ko pang tawaging isa akong Maharlika o Maharlikan kaysa isang Filipino na tanda ng pagka alipin sa Espanya at pagkawala ng pagkakakilanlan.

Sa ngayon ikinararangal ko pa rin syempre na maging Filipino pero sana ay mas masuri natin ang ating sarili at gumawa tayo ng hakbang parang angkinin muli ang ating pagkatao.

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101 comments:

TALIBA said...

ANG LAHING KAYUMANGGI AY MAHARLIKA! MABUHAY KA TALIBA!

Domingo Lira said...

Mang David:

"Hindi ba't ang pananatili ng paggamit ng pangalang ito ay isa na ring masasabing dagok sa ating lahi?" (kut)

Dahan dahan ho kayo mang David. Kung kami ang tatanuningin ninyo ay sasabihin namin sa inyo na kayo ay nasisiraan na ng bait. Pero hindi ninyo naman kami tinatanong kaya kwits na lang tayo.

Pete III, Manoling aka Ngo2 & Tikboy.

Shen said...

Ang mga ito ay aking personal na opinyon lamang base sa pag-aaral ng ating kasaysayan. Hindi ba't totoo na ang Pilipinas ay galing kay Haring Pelipe ng Espanya? Anu ngayon ang ibig sabihin ng salitang Pilipinas?

Eusebio Dizon said...

Sana maging tunay tayong researcher sa tunay na kahulugan ng MAHARLIKA (maha or maja means big) (lika or likha is the phalic word or means ari, "giver of life") maharlika is denoted to the royalties whom they attribute to be carriers of big kaarian and then to mean kingdom and with constituents. Ito nga ba ang gusto nating maging pangalan. Ang mahirap kasi sa ating mga FILIPINO o MAHARLIKANay hindi mahilig manaliksik!

rudy galang said...

LOL...

but Dave d'Angelo would rather be called an elephant or perhaps "malaking pag-aari" o kahit ano basta tanda ng karangalan... huwag daw lamang manatili ang tanda ng pagka-alipin at kawalan ng malalim na pagkakakilanlan...

Baka meron pa tayong maiisip na mas magandang pangalan para sa ating bansa at sa ating sarili....

Kenneth said...

Dave,

Ang may pakana jan sa pagpalit ng pangalan ng Filipinas ay ang dictaduriang Marcos. Ginamit nila si Eddie Ilarde na Assemblyman noong araw, at host ng Student Canteen.

Noong malaman ni Gng. Marcos ang tunay na kahulugan ng Maharlika agad agad niya inatras ang kanyang proposal... ayaw siguro niyang matawag na taga-lupa ng malalaki ang titi.

Meron pala tayo Maharlika highway... ayon baku-baku at liku-liku... . parang may tulo.

Shen said...

Ang mga salita ay pwedeng magkaroon ng sariling kahulugan depende sa paggamit. Alam ba ninyo na ang ilang salita sa ating bansa na magaganda ay maaaring pangit ang kahulugan sa ibang salita o dialekto. Nasa paggamit yan. Bakit ito ginamit ng ating mga ninuno kung ganun pala kapangit ang kahulugan?

Hindi ba?

Nito Abad said...

Sang-ayon ako.

Isa sa maharlikas,

Nito Abad

rudy galang said...

sangayon din ako, isa akong maharlika.. huhubarin ko na ang balabal ni felipe..

ilang bansa na ba ang nagpalit ng pangalan upang magpanimula ng kanilang bagong kasaysayan?

Bangkaw said...

Kung ayaw ninyong maging Pilipinas at Pilipino hayaan ninyo kaming mga Bisaya magtayo ng aming Bansa. Kasi yaong gustong maging puro at gustong ibalik ang nakaraan dahil sa "dakilang" walang batay sa katotohanan. Mabuti pang magkanya-kanya na lang tayo. Lalong hindi kami Tagalog at lalong hindi kami Maharlika. Bisaya kami.

Sige ipagpatuloy ang kahibangan at magpalit ng pangalan upang magkunwaring walang kinalaman ang Kastila sa ating identidad at kultura. Kahit magunaw ang Mundo hindi pa rin kayo sina Raja Sulayman at Lakandula. Kaya kayo na lang ang maging "Maharlika." . Kahit alisin ninyo ang pangalang Pilipinas ay Tagalog Republic pa rin ang tunay na hangad ninyo.

Ang kalokohang ganyan ang sisira sa Pilipinas hind kaming mga Bisaya ang may pakana niyan.

Kamo rah kay magija-ija na lang ta. Mabuhi Ang Bisaya.

Jay said...

Bangkaw:

I hope people without emotional issues will realize and recognize what old Ferdie Marcos was trying to do with all his " Maharlika" " Barangay", " Kabataang Barangay", " Kilusang Bagong Lipunan" BS. He was trying to create myths and forge nationhood through propagation of a fabricvated " national" identity.

Just as the Continental Congress and George Wasjonngton, Adolf Hitler and the Nazis, and the Israeli Gvernment did, created legends and myths to bring together their people and forge beliefs in their " nation" or country, Marcos did the same.

Wel, if people dont want to be Filipino, and be united as a nation, and believe in " Regonalism" and " Federalization" instead, then that is their hangup.

It really is very simple; there willl always be safety, security and more power to negotiate with others, if you have the numbers.

Kenneth said...

Sigurado kayo na maharlika ang namuno sa Filipinas bago dumating ang Kastila? Kelan nangyari iyon? Di ba, bago dumating ang Kastila wala namang Filipinas. Datapwa't tribu tribu, bara-barangay tayo... kaya noong dumating si Magallanes natagpuan niya ang away nina Raxa Humabon, Raxa Zula at Lapulapu (Calipulaco) ?

Isa pa paki-suri nga ang etimologia ng Maharlika. Minsan nabanggit ko ito sa isang Singhalese Sri Lankan (Ceylonese) ng Sri Lankan Foreign Ministry. Ang lakas ng halakhak niya. Tinanong ko kung bakit siya natawa.

Ang salitang maharlika ay sa salitang Sanskrit na "mahad" "linggum" o "malaki" "titi". Ewan ko kung ibig ninyo matawag na malalaki ang titi. E kung babae kaya? Papayag ba sila nang gayon?

Kung magkagayon, uuwi na ako sa Cebu. Ayokong matawag na malaki ang titi, kahit na totoo.

Shen said...

Pinag-isipan ko rin naman ang artikulong ito at hindi basta-basta sinulat. Mangyari rin na maraming salita sa atin ang iba ang ibig sabihin sa ibang bansa. Ang kapayapaan sa atin maaaring digmaan ang kahulugan sa ibang bansa.

Sang ayun sa aking pag-aaral noong ako ay elementarya pa lamang ay may tatlong uri noon ng lokal na "caste system" sa ating bansa ang mga maharlika, timawa at ang alipin. Ang maharlika ay parang mga dugong bughaw at mga "noble". Kung alam nila na malaking titi ang ibig sabihin nun ay bakit pa nila ginamit. Sa kanilang salita titi yun o malaking titi dapat ba na dun tayo magbase.

Hindi ko naman sinabi na yun ay "absolute" na. Natukoy ko lang ang pinaggalingan ng salitang Pilipinas. Oo nga at may kontribusyon ang mga kastila sa atin pero hindi ba at katakot-takot din na pang-aapi at pangbubusabos ang binigay nila sa atin... sankgatutak na kapangahasan, at iba pang bagay ang ginawa nila.

Ang tinutukoy ko dito ay dapat tukuyin muli natin ang ating pagkakakakilanlan bilang isang lahi.. kahit anu ka pa Bisaya ka man, Moro o anu pa. Dapat maging iisa tayo.

Tinukoy ko lang kung saan galing ang salitang Pilipinas na pangalan ng bansa natin.

Bangkaw, anung katotohanan? Wala bang batay sa katotohanan ang sinabi kong pinagmulan ng salitang Pilipinas? Hindi rin ba totoo na ang ibig sabihin para sa ating mga ninuno nun ng salitang "Maharlika" ay noble o dugong bughaw? HIndi ba ito ang tinuturo sa mga paaralan?

Isa lamang itong pananaw...

Kenneth said...

Ang pangalang Filipinas o Pilipinas ay galing sa wikang Latin. Dahil noong araw ang salitang iskolar ay Latin. Tama ka in honor of Felipe II ang Principe de Asturias na naging hari ng España. Pero hindi lang siya hari ng España kundi emperador siya ng Holy Roman Empire. Hindi siya castellano kundi aleman. Habsburg siya.

Saan naman nanggaling ang pangalang Maharlika... hindi ba itong idea na ibig sabihin na dugong bughaw at marangal ay kathang isip lang ni Henry Otley Beyer? At paano natin nalaman na mayroon tayong "caste system" bago dumating ang Kastila? Ano ang pagpapatunay nito? Ang caste system ba natin ay tulad nang nasa India?

Karamihan ng teoria ni Beyer tungkol sa Pilipinas at sa Pilipino ay kinontra at binasura na. Tulad ng Three Waves of Migration: Negritos, Indonesian, Malay na masyadong simple at sumusoporta sa White Man's Burden.

Shen said...

Kung ang mga ito ay naibasura na bakit patuloy itong nilalaman ng ating mga libro at patuloy na itinuturo sa kabataang Filipino. Hindi ako pagod maging pinoy ang naiisip ko lang sa mga pag-aaral ay kahit na ang pagiging nasyon na ito ay may mga pagkatig din ng diskriminasyon.

Ang ating caste system daw noon ay hindi tulad ng sa India sapagkat medyo libreal ito kaysa noon. Masisisi ba natin ang mga Moro kung sabihin nila na hindi sila Filipino sapagkat sila ay pwersahang isinama ng mga kastila sa bentahang naganap sa Treaty of Paris?

Paano ang mga lumad na patuloy na ninanakawa ng kultura at lupa?

Kenneth said...

Kaya nga mis-educated ang tawag sa Filipino. Iyan ang pinaglalaban ng mga tibak sa U.P. noong kapanahunan ko. Hindi ko ma-arok, pero ngayon nakuha ko na.

Maraming mali sa ating educacion at sa mga librong pinapagamit na patuloy na naglalason sa kaisipan ng kabataan na tinawag ni Rizal na "la Belleza Esperanza" ng ating bayan.

Animo: "Ang ating caste system daw noon ay hindi tulad ng sa India sapagkat medyo libreal ito kaysa noon."

Ano kaya ito? Ano ang basehan mo? Saan mo napulot ito, aside from the books we used in elementary and highschool?

Siyanga pala. May revision na rin sa Agoncillo. Pakicheck mo para malaman mo ang revision.

Animo: "Masisisi ba natin ang mga Moro kung sabihin nila na hindi sila Filipino sapagkat sila ay pwersahang isinama ng mga kastila sa bentahang naganap sa Treaty of Paris?"

Ewan ko kung paano pumasok ito sa usapan natin... akala ko ba Mahad Linggum lang?

Pero since nabanggit mo lang din... eto... Kung titignan mo ang kasaysayan mali pa nga ang Tratado de Paris ng 1898, dahil hindi nakasama ang Guam at Sabah. Ang Filipinas kasama ng Mindanao, Guam at Sabah at isinailalim ng mga Kastila sa Virreinato de Nueva España.

Kaya hindi ko alam kung saan kinuha ng mga Moro ang idea na pwersahang isinama ng Kastila ang Mindanao sa Tratado. Political propaganda iyan laban sa Republika ng Pilipinas. Matalinghaga!

Sino ang nagnanakaw ng cultura at lupa sa lumad, di ba kapwa Filipino rin?

Shen said...

Napakalaking pagkakamali kung gayun ang patuloy na paggamit ng mga kasaysayang hindi naman pala tutoo kung ganun... sdayang hindi natin masisisi kung bakit ganito ang ating bayan.

Subalit anu pa man ang pangalan natin mahalaga na muli nating angkinin ang ating karangalan na nawasak dahilan sa paggamit sa atin ng mga dayuhang siyang sumira ng ating pagkatao... at patuloy na sinisira ng mga kasalukuyang pangyayari.

Maraming salamat sa makabuluhang talakayan...

Jay said...

Yun ba ang ibig sabihin ng " Maharlika"?

Kaya pala pinangalan ni Apo ang " guerilla group" niya, " Ang mga Maharlika"; at ang " Maharlika Hall " sa Palacio".

May psychological undertones; lumabas ang Freudian slip.

Gene de Loyola said...

Sa aking pagkaunawa sa kasaysayan ng bansa ng mga Tagailog wala pa ang mga Kastila at hindi pa sinasakop ang kapuluan dahil hindi pa naliligaw si Magallanes ang kapuluang ito at tinatawag na MA-YI ng mga Intsik na mangangalakal nagiung Filipinas ito ng masakop ng mga Kastila sa panahon ni Legaspi ng maghimagsik ang mga Filipino laban sa mga Kastila sa pamumuno ng kauna unahang Pangulo si Anmdres Bonifacio pinunit ang cedula na Las Islas Filipinas at itinayo ang BINHI ng kaunaunahang Republika sa Asya ang REPUBLIKA NG KATAGALUGAN ang lumikha ng watawat nito ay ang batikang pintor maestro JUAN LUNA subalit hindi natin nabasa ito at napag-aralan sa eskwelahan ng ekodeta ang pangulong Bonifacio ng pangkat ni Aguinaldo bilang bagong pinuno at pinalitan ang pangalan at ibinalik ang pangalang Republika ng Katagalugan ay ginawang Republika Filipina na naging Republika ng Pilipinas ss Konstitusyong Malolos at Republic of the Philippines sa Panahong Americano hanggang sa
kasalukuyan

KAAWA AWANG BAYANG ALIPING NG KAMANGMANGAN SA KASAYSAYAN KAHIT ANONG PAG IBIG AT PAGSINTAT PAGMAMAHAL SA BAYAN TILA AYAW SUMIBOL ANG KATOTOJANAN SA MGA PAGSASALIMBAYAN NG MGA KAISIPAN LUPANG PANGAKO SA PAYATAS NATAGPUAN

Gene de Loyola
Artista sa Sining Biswal

Kenneth said...

Gene,

Saan ang bansa ng mga Tagailog? Kung ang tinutukoy mo ang Filipinas, ano ang tawag mo sa mga Ilocano, Ibanag, Pangalatok, Kalinga, Ifugao, Igorot, Zambal, Bicolano, Waray, Bisaya, Ylongo, Palaweño, Maguindanao, Maranao, Tausug, Lumad, Mangyan, Itneg, Tinguian, Chavacano, etc., etc. Tagalog? Duh! Baka mapugutan ka riyan.

Mukhang halo halo ang iyong mga datos. Hindi napadpad si Magallanes sa Ma Yi, ang tinutukoy na Ma Yi ay ang Isla ng Luzón. Napadpad si Magallanes sa Masaua, kung ito ay Limasawa o Butuan pinagdedebatehan pa.

Hindi kauna-unahan ang himagsikan na pinamunuan ni Andrés Bonifacio. Maraming naunang himagsikan na tulad ng kay Andrés Bonifacio ay regional lang... tulad ng sinabi mo tinatag niya ang Republika ng Katagalugan, i.e. para sa mga Tagalog lamang.

Ano naman ang basehan mo na si Juan Luna ang pintor na lumikha ng bandera ng Katagalugan? Biro mo, isang Ilocano ang lumikha ng bandera ng Katagalugan.

Hindi naging presidente ng República Filipina si Andrés Bonifacio. Naging Supremo siya ng Katipunan, pero pinalitan siya ni Aguinaldo dahil panay talo ang kanyang pakikipaglaban sa Kastila. At hindi ito golpe de estado (coup d'etat) kungdi isang marangal na elección na ginanap sa Tejeros, San Francisco de Malabón noong 1897.

Sa halalang ito, ito ang naging resulta:

Presidente Emilio Aguinaldo
Vice-Presidente Mariano Trias
Capitan-General Artemio Ricarte
Director de la Guerra
Emiliano Riego de Dios
Director de la Interior Andrés Bonifacio

Ultimong sariling niyang partido, ang Magdiwang, ay hindi bumoto sa kanya bilang presidente. Napika siya lalo ng prinotesta ang pagkapanalo niya sa posición ng director de la guerra ni Daniel Tirona. Kaya siya tumiwalag sa convención. Ito ay nasaad sa Acta de Tejeros na sinulat ni Bonifacio.

Ang kasarinlan naman ay prinoclama na mahigit ng isang taon pagkatapos ng Convención Tejeros noong 12 ng Junio 1898 sa kalagitnaan ng guerra ng mga Kastila at Americano. Pagkatapos ng pitong buwan prinoclama naman ang República Filipina sa Malolos, Bulacán noong 23 ng enero 1899.

Ang isang regionalisticong movimiento revolucionario ay naging isang movimientong nacionalista sa pamumuno ni Pres. Emilio Aguinaldo y Famy, at ito ang republicang binuwag ng mga mapanakop na Americano.

Sa pamamagitan ng iyong sariling mga salita: KAAWA AWA talaga ang BAYANG ALIPING NG KAMANGMANGAN SA KASAYSAYAN KAHIT ANONG PAG IBIG AT PAGSINTA'T PAGMAMAHAL SA BAYAN TILA AYAW SUMIBOL ANG KATOTOhANAN SA MGA PAGSASALIMBAYAN NG MGA KAISIPAN LUPANG PANGAKO SA PAYATAS NATAGPUAN.

Jay said...

Ken:

ang pagkakamali ni Bonifacio ay lumakbay at tumapak siya sa looban ng Cavite. Eh doon, napagkaisahan siya at natepok dahil sa maling akala.

ang unang unang kailangan sa isang negotiation, halalan, o diplomatic discussion, o masinsinan convention ay ang mga partida ay dapat magkita sa pook na neutral.

Kinain buhay si Bonifacio.

Kenneth said...

Animo: " Siguro dapat Republika ng MA-YI ang ating bansa"

Ay korek ka jan, Dave... dafat lang at dafat lang na Mandarin ang salita natin. Ni tzu le ma?

Why do we have to reinvent the wheel? Para ka ring político ano na walang ginawa kungdi palitan ang pangalan ng mga lansangan para lang masabi na meron silang nagawang panukalang batas?

Kung OFW ka o inmigrante ka, pagbalik bayan mo siguradong maliligaw ka dito sa natin... Ayos ayos ng mga pangalan ng mga calle pinapalitan ng mga pangalan ng mga taong malay natin kung ano ang ginawa para sa bansa.

Shen said...

It is not reinventing the wheel it is claiming back our lost identity. One way of doing it is tracing back our roots... why? In order to fight our colonial mentality which for so long is haunting us.

Ernie said...

There must be a law prohibiting the name change of the streets in the
Philippines.

My experience when I came home after 14 years is very disappointing.

Happy New Yeara to you and your family.

tumbagang isda said...

Mayroong "Feudalistic System" ang mga bayan sa Pilipinas ng dumating ang mga Kastila, at mababasa mo na sa Katagalugan at Kapampangan ay mayroong uri ng taong tawag nila ay Maginoo, sila ay Maharlika, mga malaya at may ari ng kalupaang kinakalakal ng mga alipin at malayang katauhang mahirap.

Lahat ito ay isinulat ng iba't ibang dahuyan na bumisita at nanirahan dito. Kung minsan ay ginagamit ang salitang Bumbay sa mga posisyon at katungkulan ngunit hindi pareho sa kanila ang mga "Caste" kasi ba naman sa mga Bumbay, habang buhay mo dadalhin ang posisyon mo at iminamana ito ng lahi, hindi ganito sa mga pre-Hispanic na tao sa Pilipinas.

Ang pag gamit nga salitang Maharlika ay hindi ibig sabihin na malaki nga ang titi, totoo iyon, maski na ang ibig sabihin ay ganun, walang masamang ibig sabihin ang titi nung panahong iyon, Kristiyano at Muslim ang naglagay ng masamang ibig sabihin ito.

Para sa akin, dahilan sa wala na tayo sa buhay na may sistemang buhay na ganit, dapat rin na mang wala ring patukoy ang bayan sa buhay na ganito, kanya ninais ni El Macoy na gawin ito ay balak niyang mag hari sa Pilipinas, at kung ibabalik ang Apo Lakay sistema, ganuna na nga, Maharlika ang siste.

Hindi ito maganda.

Kenneth said...

Tumbaga,

Ano ang ibig mong sabihing Feudalistic System? Iyung katulad ng nasa Europa? o iyung katulad ng nasa Japón o China? Tapos ang ating caste ay tulad ng nasa India? Hindi mo ba nahalata? Kathang isip lahat nang ito. Ikinukumpara natin ang mga sistema na alam natin tapos gumagawa tayo ng cuento para kunyari meron din tayo neto.

Ang maginoo ay salitang Tagalog na sa inglés ay gentleman o sa Kastila ay caballero. Bigla nating ihahambing sa Maharlika? Excuse me... masyado yatang buhay at creative ang isip natin dito?

Bakit hindi natin tignan ang estructura ng mga Lumad, mga Dumagat, mga Ifugao, mga Kalinga, mga Tausug, mga Badjao, mga Maranao, mga Mangyan, mga Maguindanao. At gumawa nang haka haka.... mas kapakapaniwala pa ito, dahil sila ang mga hindi nasakop ng justo ng mga Kastila at napanatili nila ang lumang kaugalian. Ang mga Mangyan hanggang ngayon ay napanatili ang kanilang sistema ng pagsulat.

Tama ka sa sinabi mong, "Para sa akin, dahilan sa wala na tayo sa buhay na may sistemang buhay na ganit, dapat rin na mang wala ring patukoy ang bayan sa buhay na ganito, kanya ninais ni El Macoy na gawin ito ay balak niyang mag hari sa Pilipinas, at kung ibabalik ang Apo Lakay sistema, ganuna na nga, Maharlika ang siste."

Kenneth said...

Ow? Is the renaming of Buendía (good day in Argentinian Spanish) to Sen Gil Puyat retracing our roots to fight colonial mentality? Is renaming Lepanto (for Batalla de Lepanto, a great Spanish victory immortalized by no less than Juan Luna) to Loyola (who he?) retracing our roots to fight colonial mentality? Duh!

Do you think the renaming of the Philippines to some God forsaken name will change the so-called colonial mentality of Filipinos, and stop them from wanting things Stateside? I call that the same dog different collar.

Besides, doesn't colonial mentality mean cowering to white superiority, and subservience to the whims and caprices of the United States?

And hasn't the present Filipino been weaned from colonial mentality? Colonial mentality, these days, is a non-issue.

The present OFW, which composes at least 10% of the population, is serving as catalyst for the eventual paradigm shift of the Philippines from a poor howbeit resource rich feudalistic agricultural country to a progressive westernized country.

One of the good things that Marcos did was through his temporary measure of sending OCW's (overseas contract workers), he unwittingly opened the minds of Filipinos that the United States is not the only foreign country in the world. Now called OFW, they are found everywhere, except maybe the North and South Poles.

Filipinos are actually colonizing the world.

Kenneth

P.S. Your ideas are actually harking back to a bygone era. Tapos na iyan. Don't relive it. Let it go. O baka naman ikaw si Eddie Ilarde na ibig lang maisakatuparan ang isang discredited na idea.... Maharlika... Mahad Linggum... big dick!

Shen said...

Beliefs and opinions are based on the perspective of people and their experiences. From a poor agricultural country to a progressive westernized country? What's wrong with being an agricultural country? I see nothing wrong with being the food basket of the world.

Filipinos are colonizing the world because we cannot provide work back home in the Philippines. The result are broken families and other effects to the people they left back home as well as to themselves.

Is Mahad Linggum our language because you are insisting that Maharlika means big dick... maybe in other countries that is.

What paradigm shift are you talking about anyway? A change in the mindset? From what to what?

Just thinking aloud.

I am not bringing old things back.. it is just retracing and reclaiming our roots and identify.

tumbagang isda said...

Hindi mo alam na ganito nga sa Pinas bago pa dumating ang Kastila?
Pero hindi ko sinabing ang "caste system" ng Pinas nuon ay tulad ng India, hindi po, dahil maski na sino maaring maging Ginoo, at maari ring maging Gat, Datu o Lakay, iyon nga lamang, ay mayroong sistema ring tulad ng Europa, Tsina o Hapon..

Hindi ito "creativity" lamang at kathang isip, ito ang mga binang git ng mga banyaga sa kanilang natagpuan sa Luzon. Hindi ukol ito sa mga Lumad ng Mindanao, medyo may kaibahan ang sa kanila, iba rin ang sistema sa mga Badjao, sa mga Maguindanao ay halos tulad sa Maynila, tulad na rin sa mga Sultanate States.

My problem is in writing Tagalog, so let me make this English:
Yes, the political system and heirarchies in the more advanced places in pre-Hispanic Philippines is Feudalistic in form, there are serfs, Ginoo (Maharlika) also confused as "Nobility" by Spanish colonials, then the Datus, Rajahs and Lakan.
We are talking about the Islamicized States, and Manila here, not the Lumads, they have their own system, still do, the Mangyans as well. However, this system also exists among the Cebuanos, Ilonggo, etc...

But it is more similar than exactly the same. Like for example a slave can marry into a higher caste, you cannot do that in India, China, Japan or Europe. A slave can also buy his/her way to freedom, either with money or bravery. How can a slave buy with cash? Well, a slave with skill can lease or rent himself out for cash, buying and selling is available then, in fact unlike what a lot of Hispanists tells me, the economy in pre-Hispanic Philippines is already not unlike Europe, silver is used as cash.

In Europe and elsewhere, the position in society is hereditary, so was in the Philippines, except that there is no ceiling, in Europe and India, the ceiling is set, you cannot rise above your station. Hence it is much more Liberal, a lot more humane, except for a few factors, a slave can die with the dead slave owner.

Anyway, this is the main reason why the introduction of the Encomiendas was easily absorbed, they just shifted the system of tributes that the Ginoos extracted from the serfs, creating of course the several revolts of Manila's Datus.

So in the final analysis,
Is there anyone here wants to revert back to those period? Not me!

It is fine to know but not fine to go back, the so-called "Feudal" system should be over, unfortunately we still have a little of this in our society in terms of our present politics, the kind of politics we don't want to continue. Even Europe this system is done and over with, why should we go back?

By the way-
I said so-called because this is a misnomer, but also correct in some way, Feudal was coined to describe the many landlord who "Feuds" for territories, warlords so to speak, China, Japan and Europe went through this in the Middle Ages of their respective nations, but native "Indios" never went through this in the same scale, oh there are raids and wars, but never to take territories, but to extract slaves, loot and wives.

Shen said...

The argument is really not in returning to the old ways but to probably adapt a symbol for our country which connotes our lost identity and nobility. I have thought of Maharlika not because I know of what Marcos suggested because I did not know it but because of the supposed "local" meaning of the term which is "noble"

The Noble Race....

Thanks for some of the points.

Bangkaw said...

Allow me to add my opinion on the issues of monetary/economic system
and the alipin mentality or "caste" structure of Pre-hispanic Philippines. Please indulge the length of my post and read all of it.

I cant post it any shorter than this one. I hope this post help clear the air on certain issues connected with other threads in this discussion.

First, it is not true that hispanists" (a label I still dont
understand up to now), are the only ones who agree, that on the whole,
the pre-hispanic economy and trade are mostly done through barter.
Yes, the inconvenience of barter, especially when quantity is
involved, have lead to a use of an early numimastic method. But these "early coins" are not silver but gold. These "coins" of gold
beads and gold rings are used in some cases as a medium of exchange
along with barter. Gold appears to be a commodity thats plentiful in
inter-island trading. Here is one article about the history of the
monetary system in the Philippines that tend to show a general trend
for the barter method in Pre-Hispanic Philippines:

A: HISTORY
/Pre-Hispanic Period
http://www.ufaqs.com/wiki/en/ph/Philippine%20peso.htm

"Trade among the early Filipinos and with traders from the neighboring islands was conducted through barter. The inconvenience of barter later led to the use of some objects as medium of exchange. Gold, which was plentiful in many parts of the islands, invariably found its way into these objects that included the piloncitos, small bead-like gold bits considered by the local numismatists as the earliest coin of the ancient Filipinos, and gold barter rings."

Second, silver or silver coins appeared to be of value in the islands not because of ancient chinese trading during the pre-hispanic period, but, during the Spanish period when it was introduced from Spanish Latin American colonies like Mexico. These Mexican silver cob coins were called hilis kalamay or macuquinas. China did not have have an abundance of silver mines than the ones in Latin America. China used silk and porcelain to acquire silver from Spanish colonies using Manila. Its not the other way around. Please read about the Manila-Acapulco- China Galleon Trade which you can accessed through popular Filipino History books. Anyway, I quote:

/Spanish Period

"The Spanish period saw a multitude of currencies circulating in the Philippines, the most popular being the Mexican peso. However, other currencies like the Alfonsino peso, Mexican cob coins (locally called hilis kalamay), other currencies, and coins from other Spanish colonies were also used. Many of the coins that reached the Philippines came because of the Manila Galleon which dominated trade for the next 250 years. These were brought across the Pacific, in exchange for odd-shaped silver coins called cobs or macuquinas. Other coins that followed were the dos mundos or pillar dollars in silver, the counterstamped coins and the portrait series ,also in silver."

B: ALIPIN MENTALITY OR THE "CASTE" SYSTEM

On the issue of "caste" in pre-hispanic Philippines I tend to agree with you. Yes, the alipin mentality was not because of the Spanish period which tagalistas and tribal fundamentalists usually blame. But rather it stemmed from the social structure when there was no Philippines or Filipinos.

Indeed, you are on to something when you mentioned a caste-like inequality almost similar to India and I agree.

Only in the Philippines it was not on religious grounds like in India but economic servitude.

The two most common forms of alipin in pre-Hispanic Philippines was the aliping namamahay, which was a slave who lived in his own house but tended the fields of the master at certain days. Usually in most days during the week. And the aliping saguiguilid, a slave, usually, a female, who lived with the master doing labor. They were hearth slaves at the beck and call of the master. Sure, this kind of slavery was not like in the U.S when slavery was legal, but similarly degrading to human dignity in my opinion, even if in pre-Hispanic Philippines one can buy one's freedom through years of servitude, because the best years of a person's life was exploited for the sole benefit of another.

Then you add the cultural addition of the patron-client system inherited during the Spanish period with the pre-Hispanic ruler-alipin matrix and what you have is a Sociology of privilege and entitlement that go to all strata of society. The rich with a sense of having the monopoly to wealth and power and the poor with a mendicant attitude of entitlement, dependency and victimology. This is further aggravated by the American colonial ideas of racial inequality and pedigree or "purity". And you can see those characteristics coming out of the woodwork in the present time. Instead of actions and consequences that guide our thought process we tend to shift the cause of our problems somewhere else.

Now, I am not saying Filipino culture on the whole, is damaged. Other cultures have their shortcomings as well when viewed with standards we used on ourselves. Its just that there are cultural habits that need improving through authentic decolonization. And thats a decolonization from the system and habits inherited out of the pre-hispanic and the colonial periods.

Happy New Year.

tumbagang isda said...

And it is extensive, however let me point out several things:

Your link is not extensive enough to he a reliable source, in fact
even though it is correct in pointing out that gold was used as
medium, silver is just as much used then. It was not introduced by the
Spaniards at all. In fact Spanish chroniclers said this, do not even
quote me.

Now the Hispanists, they are several people who pointed out to me erroneously that Philippines do not have the technology or know how to use oil, much less deep fry, even though it is already known that natives used coconut oil to light up the night. As even Pigafetta mentioned. I will continue to call them hispanistas until proven otherwise.

In searching "vocabulario de la Tagala" it did prove that to me,
since chicharrones is being made by ancient Tagalogs and Pampangos.

So was silversmithing, goldsmithing and metalurgy also trading with
silver, gold and copper.

Now, trades among nations at first were nothing but barter, and with
all of them each has to develop other ways to pay for items they do
not wish to barter with, but still useable, so a monetary system was
developed, this is true anywhere you go. Island Southeast Asia is no
different. Chinese had been trading with native "Indios" before the
12th century, and I was even surprised when I read translations of Chao Ju Kua's writings, that Filipinos had been attacking China's shores continously from Manila. As well as trade with silver, gold and also items of dyestuff and spices, spices? Yes, you see the spices that we know of now as Chinese aren't Chinese in origins, this is according to the Chinese, not Spaniards, not Filipinos or even Malays.

Like the star anise for example, cinnamon and even ginger, a common
enough item today.

Funny thing about "Vocabulario de la Tagala", the copy that I was
able to download, two versions of it, was a copy given to a US
university, Stanford, from Hispanic group. Sociedad Cervantes.

If you are still in school here in the US, I suggest you read the
number of literature in Spanish that is available in US universities.

Bangkaw said...

Well, I dont know what you mean by extensive to prove a point, which I
clearly did. The sources there have other sources to check for
veracity. So you cant just brush it off.

Anyway, to repeat myself. Much of the silver did not come from China
because China traded for silver and not the other way around. There
are plenty of history books pertaining to it which you can read. Any
author.

Second, silver was not the metal popularly used as medium of exchange
by pre-hispanic natives until the Galleon Trade. Its gold. However,
just because they didnt use silver as medium of exchange like they did
with gold did not they have no knowledge of it. I didnt make such a
claim for I wrote that the value silver had as a universal form of
exchange happened during the Spanish period. Its more than likely that
silver by-products such as ornamenation for weapons and the like may
been have used as bartered good. But they may have not used silver as
a form of exchange like they did with gold whenever quantity created
inconvenience with bartering.

What we definitely know is that the popular use of silver for currency
didnt come into the economy until the Spanish introduced it as part of
the monetary system of the colonies. You can check the history of
coins in several sources. One is in the archives of the Philippine
Central Bank . The other is the National library of the Philippines
about Pre-hispanic numimastics.

Third, I dont know what relevance is it with "hispanistas" about oil
for cooking when it was about barter for inter-island commerce. And
they, the hispanistas, are correct about barter because they are not
the only ones who say it for most Philippine history books mentioned
it as well. The other way to verify barter would be the economic
practices of tribal people of the Philippines who are the remnants of
the pre-hispanic inhabitants like the B'laan and Ubo. They still use
barter among themselves along with monetary denominations of the
modern world.

If I follow your logic about frying food (and I must confess I dont
know what the gist of your debate with "hispanistas" is concerning
it), that the knowledge of oil or coconut oil for cooking or frying by
pre-hispanic inhabitants is not unknown to them, as you claim, is
plausible. But its also plausible that they didnt use coconut oil for
frying and could have merely used it for lighting their homes. The
process for instance of refining it into edible oil is another matter
we have to consider.

It all depends on how that "technology" by pre-hispanic people in the
Philippines found popular acceptance in their culture vis-a-vis food
preparation. A similar analogy I could think of right now is the
knowledge of the wheel. The mayans and the incans for all their
cultural sophistication did not use it in a popular form like
transportation. Yet, mayan toys have been found with wheels. So
they've known about the wheel but they didnt use that knowledge of the
wheel for what the "west" have turned into popular technology.

It may have been the same with coconut oil. Just because the
pre-hispanic inhabitants of the Philippines may have knowledge of
coconut oil does not mean they use it for frying. Until we find a
pre-hispanic recipe that shows frying we are in the dark and the
convention still holds for now. Although I must admit its going to be
difficult to trace the origins of recipes given the myriad cultural
influences in Filipino cooking nowadays.

I am pretty sure the pre-hispanic people knew metallury. There are
ample evidence of it. But what they did with certain metals for
specific purposes may not mean the same for the pre-hispanic people in
a similar fashion with other cultures.

Yeah, there was chinese trading and not just with them but with other
cultures as well. And that goods like gold, bronze and silver may have
been involved.

I remember a discussion I had about the nationality of the raiders who
took slaves and goods from the coast of China. I was of the contention
that it came from whats now the Philippines because of the design of
the outriggers which are similar to the baranggay boats. The other guy
sent me a photo with a sketch of an outrigger that's almost raftlike
in width and construction that was supposed to be described by the
chinese who bore the brunt of the raid. The weakness though of that
sketch was that its a rivercraft popularly used by austronesians in
what's now Taiwan and not seaworthy. So yeah the raiding party may
more than likely be the "Filipinos" during the pre-hispanic period.

Thanks for responding.

Kenneth said...

Noble Race? Is there such a thing? You are starting to sound like Adolf Hitler, who thought of creating the super-race of Aryans, blond, blue-eyed, six feet tall, white, etc., etc. Unknown to him, Sri Lankans are also Aryans, dark haired, brown eyed, dark skinned, and below six feet.

And pray tell, how do you do such a thing? Genetic manipulation? Is that moral? How do you turn back the hands of time?

Shen said...

Noble does not mean superior as what Adolf Hitler says. And seeing the name Maharlika does not mean going back to the old times it is just a name in order to reclaim our lost identity. I am not pushing for it as well, I am just pointing out an idea that maybe the name Philippines does not really pertain to us or is suitable for us and in order to start a cultural and moral revolution we can be reborn under a new name.

Synonyms of the word noble includes dignified, righteous, decent, good, splendit, fine, gracious, etc... it does not mean the superior race just like Hitler wants Germany to be.

Kenneth said...

Dave,

We are an agricultural country, but are we the food basket of the world? Far from it. The United States, the greatest superpower on earth, and great industrial power is THE food basket of the world. How many times have their farmers burned fields of wheat just to keep prices up?

On the other hand, we have to import even our rice from Vietnam! While the United States, and other European countries that produces industrial goods like steel, and automobiles enjoy a glut of food, we, the agricultural countries, e.g. Ethiopia, Somalia, Bangladesh, inter alia, suffer from food shortages, malnutrition, and drought.

Thailand, Taiwan, Korea, China, Malaysia, Indonesia, etc., etc. all were once agricultural. .. They have all industrialized. Even Vietnam is industrializing. And their economic growth is catastrophic. On the other hand, the Philippines have managed to dismantle the industrial based painstakingly put together in the 1950's, and return to agriculture keeping the Philippines pristine. And what have the Philippines achieved?

OFW's, doctors turned nurses, lawyers turned nurses, professionals turned draftsmen, and forklift operators, teachers turned domestic helpers, male and female prostitutes of all shapes and sizes... even gay prostitutes.

You say, "Filipinos are colonizing the world because we cannot provide work back home in the Philippines. "

Precisely, because we are MERELY agricultural. No industry no jobs no work... thus we export our manpower.

Go ahead. Insist on Maharlika, and be the butt of jokes.

tumbagang isda said...

Maha lingam is the word and yes it means Great dick, but it also means other things even among ancient Indians.

That does not mean it is a good idea to rename Philippines to that, why? it is just as much a foreign word as the rest and it reflects the Feudal system of that day.

tumbagang isda said...

All these industrialized nations developed their industries to support agriculture, as it does other industries came up, cities got larger, people have more "free time" so they need other stuff, so it fed the industrial machinery to produce other stuff to fill it.

They all started from agri-business. .

So if we wish to industrialize, we should industrialize our farms first, make it efficient and bring their produce efficiently to the markets, that means infrastructures have to be there, roads, mills, processing plants..

Philippines just like Bangladesh have the unfortunate location, storm alley. But it can be worked around.

During the 1950s industries sprouted all over Manila area, fed by steel industries that is outside and inside of Manila, laws were passed to protect these industries but that protectionism backfired, we started losing them, even Filipino owned industries. Then there's the government giving more importance to Japanese and American companies than Filipino startups.

It became so that it is easier to start a company in Malaysia and Thailand by Filipinos than Philippines, Filipino capital took a flight. Then what do these Filipino capital did? They import their products to the Philippines, yes, some of those imports are from Filipino owned companies. What is wrong with this picture?

To give you an example, my cousin started a company producing patis, toyo and ginisang bagoong, bagoong etc.. he cannot start the company in dear old Pilippinas, it is restrictive, so he developed it in Malaysia, tons of money came in, his investors were happy. One of his investors pulled the rug under him by going to Malaysia and moved parts of the production elsewhere in the country and placed his own brand, Malaysian investors ended up taking it away from that guy.

My cousin decided to pull the plug on the whole thing and closed shop, took his part of the loot and retired.

What is the lesson learned?

Philippine government is a problem, greed is a problem.

By the way, his products were never sold in the Philippines, only in the US. He had difficulties importing them to the Philippines, US laws are much more demanding when it comes to food and drugs but he was able to sell to the US, but not Philippines.

Kenneth said...

Beautifully said, Tumbaga!

"All these industrialized nations developed their industries to support agriculture, as it does other industries came up, cities got larger, people have more "free time" so they need other stuff, so it fed the industrial machinery to produce other stuff to fill it."

Bangkaw said...

The Philippine economy ,especially, agriculture did not develop fully
because of colonialism in various mutations. The Philippines had been
the dumping ground of foreign goods and the source of initially
untapped resources for them. And not the other way around. So yeah
agriculture was also needed to develop manufacturing but agriculture and manufacturing was never ours to keep.

So how do we recover it? By not paying the international debt and
instead generate local capital for local needs and alienate
international creditors? Do we continue exporting Labor to have access to hard capital? Or do we go crazy and join the bandwagon of globalism and sacrifice the environment, sovereignty and worker rights to fast track industrialization? But how do we do it if we remain only as a
market for manufactured goods and continue to be dictated by debt?

Kenneth said...

As if the change of name can change the character of a people. Besides you are presuming that maharlika means noble... as Tumbaga also agreed to maharlika comes from the Sanskrit word maha lingam (sori wrong ispeling ako earlier)... meaning malaking titi... If you think having a big dick is noble then maybe it is noble.... parang mga Papua New Guineans na naglalagay ng penis gourd upang magsimulate ng astig na etits.

Ngayon, you are also muddling the issue... of course noble does not mean superior... but the idea is there...

http://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play?vid=1299742289&vw=g&b=0&pos=1&p=adolf+hitler&fr=ush1-mail

You notice how Adolf Hitler changed the German flag adopting the swastika, which is a Buddhist symbol. You notice how Adolf Hitler referred to Germany (Deutschland) as Der Dritte Reich (the Third Kingdom). You notice how Adolf Hitler adopted the Nazi salute... all these in the name of myth making, and propaganda. You notice how god-like Adolf Hitler had become, and how mesmerized were the German youth.

Same thing was to be done by the Conjugal Dictatorship of the Marcoses. The Philippine flag was altered. Maharlika was made to be the new name.... His regime was called the Bagong Lipunan.

Sieg Heil!

tumbagang isda said...

Come to think of it "Dakilang Lahi" could also be another meaning for "Maharlika"..

Ben said...

Mang Dave,

Marahil ang mga miyombre mo ay puro "Maharlika" na ibig mo, sana naman ay mga "tuli" at hindi "supot" at marahil alam mo na ang impact ng supot, ang mga supling ay "muta-in", ayaw kung maging supot country ang Pinas, mag-unos dilis naman kayo!

Shen said...

Ang usaping ito ay nasa usaping wala sa personal na latag kundi sa usaping intelektuwal o pang ideolohiya. Kaya minsan ay mahirap magbigay ng iyong ideya sa isang grupo na maaaring salungat sayo ay sapagkat magiging personal ang paglaban sa iyo.

Ito ang isa sa dahilan kung bakit napakabagal umusad ng ating bansa sapagkat mahilig tayong mamersonal at tapakan ang karangalan ng iba.

Hindi ba't yan ang ginawa ni Aguinaldo kay Bonifacio?

Jay said...

Gents:

Your discussion is enjoyable. I for one don't care a whit that I am called a Filipino; it's just the way it is and find nothing derogatory in being labelled as one. The emotional hangup by some is so puzzling. Maharlika? Bangsa Malaya? Magayon? As the Bard said, " What's in a name"?

Can you imagine americans today agonizing over something as petty and trivial as this country being named after an Italian, amerigo Vespucci?

Bangkaw said...

Thats the problem. You guys want to change the unchangeable by
inventing a new identity thats based on invention. As if we have a
disease or something for being Filipino. There is nothing wrong with
the name Philippines. And to be precise the Spanish did not name it
for us. Our movers and shakers, the Filipinos, adopted it to keep the
various regional groups together in a new country. Republica ng
Katagalogan hardly does it much less Maharlika which is also foreign
and invented like the Malakas at Maganda myth during the Marcos
regime.

The Spanish have named the archipelago including Guam and the
Marianas, Las Islas Filipinas, not for a country or an independent
republic they recently occupied, but for a Spanish overseas province.
Or for a Spanish colony, if thats how you prefer it. You have to make
a distinction between Spanish Filipinas and Filipino Filipinas. They
may appear similar but the paradox is that in essence they are not the
same. That Philippines was named for new country by the movers and
shakers to honor King Philip II is erroneously applied to the new
country. That particular King have long turned to dust when the
revolution took place. It was named Filipinas because the natives of
whatever "race" and linguistic origin began viewing themselves as
Filipinos, a new nation, and therefore, Filipinas. It may help if you
read the Malolos constitution. That is if you are open to the idea
that there's nothing wrong with being Filipino. But I dont think thats
where you stand.

I too am proud of the pre-hispanic past but I dont pretend I am one of
them. We are not a carbon copy of them. However, I am part of the
cultural heritage they imparted throughout Filipino history. But my
history did not stop there during the pre-hispanic period. I too
have a heritage beyond the bamboo hut and I dont mean that in a
negative way. As a Filipino I not only have alibata and bamboo huts
but I also have a heritage of stone architecture and the western
alphabet.

The past cannot be brought back to life only re-enacted. There is
nothing wrong with my nationality as a Filipino. I am just like
everybody other nationality with cultural nuances. And I am genuine
not fake.

Renaming it destroys the "authenticity" of my being Filipino for a
different one. And that renamed one is whats foreign to me.

I hope you understand. But if not whatever.

Bangkaw said...

And I literally have bled for the Philippines (not maharlika) at one
point in my life. I care about it as much as anyone who claims that
they do. And it breaks my heart whenever someone says we have to
recover an identity thats allegedly lost.

Re-discovering the pre-hispanic past is one thing but to say that we lost that identity is hard to fathom. Our identity is not that of the pre-hispanic. Therefore we have nothing to lose.

The Filipino identity is post pre-hispanic, post spanish and post
american identity.

Shen said...

The identify that we have lost is our character. Our character as a Filipino, as a people... our moral identify against corruption and other evils which is hunting our country now.

Kenneth said...

Dave,

Our character was never lost. We merely deny our Filipino identity by insisting on going indigenous. Rediscovery is fine, but a return to the pre-colonial paradigm? No way... We are now in 2008.... We are too far off from the times of Raxa Sulayman.

Tikboy said...

Mang Dave:

Ok Mang Dave say I have lost my character, what do you want me to do to redeem it?. And then again, In whose eyes will I redeem myself, yours, mine and whoever?.

Tikboy
Ice fishing in MN

Bangkaw said...

Moral character against corruption? How can going back to the past even solve anything. Creating a false identity taken from bits and pieces of the pre-hispanic past is a cop-out. Instead of facing the habits ingrained through the centuries, and many of which had its cultural conditioning roots in tribal societies you romanticize, we have to pretend a cultural cleanliness that never existed. Here I copied for you the second part of my post to copper about pre-hispanic endencies compounded by colonialism. Then tell me what moral character against corruption pre-hispanic natives really have compared to the one that was supposedly lost today

Jose Caedo said...

Going back to pre-colonial times and believing the inhabitants of the islands then had character as a people and mores superior to those of today is illlusion and delusion.

while we might be able to learn from mistakes, the circumstances and settings of today are far different, and we must daily adapt to find new and better answers. It's a dynamic world; not static.

That is not to say we should discount our experience and observations of human nature in individual persons. There are things elementary to humans as individuals that simply do not change, such as desire for fame, desire to transfer genes ( sexual drive), avarice, or greed, or acquisitiveness, kindness, envy.......those are constant.

tumbagang isda said...

Let me make this clear:
The heirarchies of Feudal pre-Hispanic Philippines has similarities to India, that is the terms are the same.

There were also differences, those are:

Inda: the castes were inherited and cannot be broken.

Indianized Austronesian area:

Only slaves are inherited but can also be broken as in the rest of the heirarchies, a slave can buy their freedom. A slave can in fact be a Datu.

Outcaste of India will remain the same in fact some parts of India these are still practiced.

This caste system in India, yes, was introduced by Hinduism, a religion practiced by Caucasoids who invaded India more than five thousand years ago.

Please do not use alipin mentality, because there is no such thing, alipin has definitely different meaning from slaves, although there are similarities a slave cannot buy itself out of the situation, an alipin can, although they may receive the same treatment from their "amo".

There is a big difference between sagigilid ang namamahay, as far as alipin, in fact even paid maids were called alipin back then.

Feudal system is still feudal where all the power is in the hands of a Datu or Gat, Lakan or Rajah, some may enjoy their position because of the Ginoo, yes, they were called that. And the Ginoo may even pull his support, the majority of the people has no say to any of their decisions, I like democracy where I have the choice to make decisions on my life.
Freedom means to be able to determine what is good for me, and with others what is good for all of us, this is not possible in Feudal systems that had been replaced years ago by all sane thinking people.

Several rights I reserve for myself and I expect the government to protect all these:
1. My right to enjoy any religion or none of it.
2. My right to associate with other like minded individuals.
3. My right of free speech.
4. My right to pursuit happiness on my terms.
5. My right to privacy.

What we see as corruption in the high places is brought, yes, by years of being colonized, but not because the Spaniards and Americans are corrupt, they are in today's eyes, but back then EVERYONE WAS, that is because society works that way then, the Spaniards in order to prevent revolts from the Datus of Central and Southern Luzon, they paid them and started calling them gobernadorcillos, or cabezas, whatever.. some were given Spanish citizenships.

Spain did the same among their own people, you are allowed to buy positions in the government, this is how it works in Europe then.
Americans being Europeans have the same exact mentality, with a new twist.

The new Filipinos, composed of natives, mestizos of various alien blood, that gained government positions considered the government ran by Americans as an alien entity, it does not matter if you extract as much from it, it isn't Filipino anyway, but when it was handed to Filipinos, that attitude continued. It is time to break that up, this is not relevant to our lives, we are now talking about stealing from our own.

This is the problem now, how do you break that chain of wrong thinking, you steal from the government, you are at this point stealing from your own house.

Bangkaw said...

You're good, Jay. I could not have said it any better myself.

I wish Filipinos just face reality for once and solve whatever
problems we have from the collective experiences of our history. We as
Filipinos have been living in lala land for a long time. Its time to
wake up and get on with what we have and improve.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Well said.

Shen said...

I have said my arguments and my views and I think this discussion will go on for centuries. If greed and everything was constant then we should stop complaining of what is happening and just accept whatever corruption and situation we are in right now.

You believe as you believe and I do as I do believe. No one is forcing you to believe. If we have not lost any identity and we are as prone to the "lagay" and undisciplined system as we are now than before and we are ok to it then so be it... but for me I do not think that this is the Filipino I want to be ... nor I want to see ... nor I want my kids to turn into.

Thanks for all the comments and the time given to reply and comment on this article.

Bankaw said...

There is such a thing as alipin mentality. And its flipside, the
master complex. I am not saying it to denigrade us but to point out
the subservient and oppressive roots in our habits. There are things that need improving and to paraphrase you: " and it should start from your own house" is something I agree with. And thats what many have been trying to do. No disagreement with that point.

As for slavery in general whether or not one can unslaved one's self
sometime in the future is beside the point. The point is the
exploitation of human beings for the benefit of another human being.
To use people as chattels be it for a certain period or forever are
the same and that to me is corruption. Slavery pre-civil war american style and Slavery pre-hispanic style are both abhorrent.

The caste system in India or anywhere else has to do with social
stratification and economics. Just like pre-hispanic slavery is based
on economic servitude and social inequality. Of course one can leave
one's caste in India in very rare instances. This is done through
religious cleansing for some deed or newly discovered family
background. Yes, caste is generally inherited but there are exceptions
to the rule.

In pre-hispanic Philippines social mobility is also rare and a slave
who desires to get out of indebtedness to a lord, or a freeman desiring to rise from one's lowly station in life, is difficult. Such as saving the lord's life for instance. What are the odds for a freeman or a slave finding themselves in the right place at a right time for it to occur? The length of time that a slave serve can be arbitrarily lengthened by the master through various machinations the master can come up with.

Alipin from the pre-hispanic past as well as Colonialism is the precursor of an attitude. It is the feeling of entitlement and dependency. That the economically wealthy has the sole obligation to
help them anyway, and thats why they dont owe them anything, nor are they at fault for not working hard, because they can get something for nothing. That they are entitled to such help and depended on it. While for those who are in the upper echelons of society the feeling of being entitled to certain privileges for being there without the civic
obligation to the rest.

An alipin mentality is the mentality of entitlement, . dependency and mendicancy in the social strata of Filipino culture. Yes, there is such a thing just as there is the flipside of this mentality. Isnt this what we call the Master or Lord mentality? The matapobre attitude based on values of wealth accumulation and pedigree and thus even the poor imitate it in their own social class with its own hierarchy.

Dont we condone corruption in today's time by applauding those who have been stealing from public coffers by saying, well, everybody does it anyway and only condemn those who get caught? We are even easily impressed with new wealth. Isnt this also an alipin attitude? The slave rationalizing the master's corrupt ways because thats the way it is supposed to be?

The alipin and master mentality are present and its time we decolonized from it.

Kenneth said...

Sure, I'd enjoy girls moving about barebreasted, with no panties! Wonder if the girls will enjoy seeing us in pantaloons, and/or g-strings, with large earings, and either a kris or bolo. Or maybe, I'll move around with a penis gourd, huh?

I'd make sure that I'd be wealthy collecting cowry shells, so I can buy all the slave girls I want... you know, bed warmers. I'd also be a warrior so I can raid all those defenseless villages, cutting off their heads, and raping and pillaging the villages. Bringing home boys to work as slaves in my kaingin field, and girls to be my maids serving me food, and, of course, GREAT SEX!

Come to think of it, it would be so much fun going back to being indigenous.

Jay,

I am in total agreement with you. However, there are romantic fools amongst us who think that they can return to a pre-colonial state, which to their mind is utopia.

I wish there is a time machine to take these fools back to the 14th century, and so they can come back and tell us how idyllic was pre-hispanic Philippines.

Jay said...

thanks, Bangkaw. I personally don't subscribe to the " Overseas Filipino Heroism" school either.

since time immemorial, the father of a family, or the " breadwinner always assumed responsibility for the brood.

It is just a puzzlement why filipinos of today are making such ordinary duty and responsiblility to care for dependents, elders and having the diligence of a good father of the family as heroic. Beats me.

Ken:

I wonder if they would enjoy living even a week in the 14th, or 15th Centuries as an ordinary person in the islands .....chances are they would have been robbed, or enslaved. Apropos of this, I recommend a reading of the biography of Will Adams, the real English " pilot" who became Tokugawa Ieyasu's close friend and advisor; given Samurai rank, and built two warships for the Shogun. Even the Governor General of the Philippines once borrowed one of those ships. Adams is the figure upon which the TV series and book, " Shogun" was written. It is a great story on culture shock, how two cultures met and combined, and how western ideas and inventions were absorbed by the early Japanese.

IThe whole idea just proves how one must adapt to move on. Oh yes, BTW, one of Tokyo's Districts was and still is named after " Anjin San", or " the Pilot". It's just off Roppongi, where a store I frequented, " Japan Sword" is.

Adam's life is fully documented, as his papers are in the British Museum; he was a shipwrecked factor in Japan of the British East India Company..... I can only wish we also had something like that from one who saw our tribesmen in the islands pre 1521.

Talking about going back in time and becoming " native", how would one apply for a certain job? The only thing that sounds interesting in those days was the job of that guy who would be hired to ceremonially deflower virgins.

They had that job in Tahiti as well.

Shen said...

I would like to believe that I am talking with educated and respectable people... but the way some of the replies went I might be having a misconception here... but thanks because I have seen some of the "real" problems we as Filipinos have.

TALIBA said...

Mainit na pagbati at pagpupugay sa lahat!

Batig namin na hindi kailanman magkakaroon ng pagtutugma ng kaisipan tungkol dito. Lao pa't ang panagalang ito ay ginamit ng yumaong Pangulong Ferdinand E. Marcos.

Ukol dito, nais naming ipabatig para sa kalinawan ng lahat, na ang samahang TALIBA ay isa sa mga nagsusulong ng pagbabago ng pangalan ng bansa. Mula sa kasalukuyan pangalang Filipinas o Pilipinas, sa pangalang MAHARLIKA. Sa pagkakaroon desisyon magsulong na pananaw na ito, ang Samahan ay masusing nagaaral at nagsusuri, sa loob ng mahigit sampung taon.

Sa usapin ito, nais po naming ipabatig ang mga sumusunod na puntos. Una, ang TALIBA ay walang kaugnayan sa yumaong Pangulong Ferdinand Marcos. At lalong hindi ito humugot ng diwa at pananaw mula sa yumaong diktador. At, pangalawa, ang pangalang MAHARLIKA ay napili, upang imulat ang lahat na tayo ay mula sa isang Lahing Dakila. Lahat tayo ay dapat bumangon sa pangaalipin at pambubusabos ng mga dayuhan. At upang magsilbing "sigaw ng pagpupunyagi at pangako sa ating sarili at mga ninuno ng Lahi" na hindi na kailanman tayo papaduhagi at magpapaapi.

Mabuhay ang Lahing Dakila! Mabuhay ang mga Maharlika!

Kenneth said...

Excuse me, greed, and everything (whatever you mean) is a very human characteristic. The Filipino do not have a monopoly of these traits... You make it sound like the Filipino are the only peoples guilty of these bad traits, which you attrtibute to our Spanish colonial past... duh! Thus, I do not understand your rantings... Are you suggesting that the Filipino should be holier than Christ... Baka humigit pa tayo sa Guinoo! JesúsMaríaJosef!

Shen said...

Well at least we can try to make a difference... I respect your belief as I think I am entitled to respect of my belief as well.

Thanks!

Kenneth said...

Do you really want to make a difference? Think of ways how to alleviate the lives of impoverished Filipinos. Think of ways on how to create jobs, and wealth for the Filipino people. Think of ways to make the Filipino have a choice in working at home or abroad. Think of ways of regaining the prestige of the Filipino passport.

Shen said...

I am making a difference in my own way... and hopefully you are as well. Thanks!

Jay said...

Hahahaha Dave:

! Sometimes even respectable and educated people can be ribald, humurous, and facetious in their riposte play. You should be more careful about those who are simply pretentious and take things too " seriously".

What you or I say, discuss, rehash, and beat to death over the internet does not matter one whit in the greater scheme of things. Neither you nor I by ourselves can make " the difference".

It is up to god and the rest of the nation to determine what lies in the future. We can just talk about it, and work in our own little way. but ultimately, problems in the RP will be resolved once the people as a whole decide to change themselves from within and change the systems they complain about.

A PPP or whatever Party from the outside will not bring those changes about. It devolves upon the people who actually live, and suffer under the actual conditions of life, to effect the changes themselves. We can only intellectualize.

Ben said...

Dave,

Our current government is not perfect and generally base on this principles;

1. Liberty

2. Pursues happiness.

Liberty-- in our constitutions we are guaranteed of freedom of speech, etc....provided within the scope of our cuurent law. As a typical example,you Dave, is advocating our youth to become a communist, in the "Pretend" of being nationalistic, going back where we are,etc... although not impossible but very hard.

Pursues Happiness--- Work hard, and when saves enough stopped working and tours around the world,in a communist system, what is mind is yours and what is your is yours.

What you are doing is fooling the people for your own selfish motives, Pilipinos are not that "naive" so stop fooling around.

Even your name is not Pilipino, it is a combination of american and italian, why dont you start changing your name as a start? If you remember, I called you "sicko" imagine changing the Philippines to ":malaking Titi"!

You need help.

Shen said...

Nakakalungkot naman ang komentong ito. Napaka personal naman ng pagkakabanat. Isa ito sa dahilan kaya hindi magkasundo dito sa ating bayan dahil sa mga taong kagaya mo.

Una kaya ganito ang pangalan ko dahil ang nanay ko ay Filipino-American at ang tatay ko ay Brazilian. My Great Great Uncle is Franklin Delano Roosevelt and my fullname is David Delano D'Angelo.

Hindi ako "sicko" at hindi ako nasisiraan ng bait. Nagpahayag lang ako ng isang pananaw at hindi ko ito pinipilit na sang-ayunan ng sinuman. Ito ay isa lamang pananaw. Sumang ayon ka okey.. wag kang sumang-ayon okey din.

I am not fooling around for my own selfish motives? What motive could I have? Simple lang akong tao na tumutulong sa kabataan at hindi ako nag aadvocate ng anumang sinasabi mo. Hindi mo ako kilala bilang tao at kung sino ako kaya kung maaari lang ay huwag mo akong husgahan. Kung may pina-aralan ka hindi ganyan ang magiging banat mo.

Iginagalang ko ang inyong mga pananaw at ni minsan ay wala akong tirang o reply na kabastusan o below the belf. Ito ay ng sa gayon anuman ang ating pananaw tayo ay makakakain sa isang lamesa ng walang sama ng loob.

Ang ini aadvocate ko ay ang pananaw na tingnan ng bawat tao ang kanyang kapwa tao bilang bahagi ng isang malaking lipunan at tulungan din ito na maging maayos. Ang problema sa atin masyado tayong individualistic.

We are in this world not for ourselves and not for our own enrichment.. we are here to make a difference and to create a ripple in another one's life.

Wag mo akong husgahan dahil hindi mo ako kilala!

Bilang tao iginagalang kita kaya sana naman ay igalang mo rin ako.

Salamat po!

Kenneth said...

A babaylan! That sounds like a good job for me... Bring in the girls!

Jose Caedo said...

I hope you guys realize that the original post is to reclaim the native identity and not to go back into the old ways..

And the native identity has so many variations, since we are a multi-cultural nation, yes, all are Filipinos but nevertheless, some still claims Hispanic as their sole culture.. You KNOW WHO YOU ARE..

But there are more who can claim native culturally and not lie, I have friends who are Manobo, Aeta, and Tausug who has no idea whatsoever what Tagalog and Lowland Filipino means...

I have relatives who will continue to claim Hispanicity and yet cannot
prove that direct relationship except through ancestry.. yes, it makes one BIG difference. Ancestry does not make it in the real world, only direct personal connection does.

This is the reality of identity, Mexicans even of Spanish descent, like my friend whose father was from Barcelona, mother native Mexican mixed with Chinese (nope, they are not called mestizo, they are called criollo, less respected than mestizo!!), he is not Spanish, culturally or what ever you
want to peg on him.

Something people will keep missing because of that personal prejudice that I try to remove here... My personal prejudice, is simply: "Admit it!! You are Filipino and not Spaniard!".. . this is from my grandmother whose brother fought for the Bulacan Katipunan, and fought the Americans.. of course her father is Portuguese.

Kenneth said...

Nobody is claiming that we are Spaniards, duh!

Is that your take, i.e. the original post is to reclaim the native identity? What is the native identity, anyway?

The original post wanted to change the name Filipinas to Maharlika, which came from the Sanskrit word, Maha Lingam. The claim that Filipinas being named after the King of Spain was demeaning of the Maharlika, whom it was meant to mean noble or dakilang lahi.... a misconception as earlier mentioned. Aside from the fact that it excludes non-Tagalogs. .. just look at the subject... It says Re: Maharlika, ang Dakilang Lahi.

In that case, Spain should consider changing its name too. Since España came from the Latin name Hispania meaning land of rabbits. Which now is more demeaning? To be named after a noble monarch, emperor of the Holy Roman Empire, member of one of the longest ruling royal families of Europe, the Habsburg, or to have a name describing your land as home to rabbits?

tumbagang isda said...

This is not a new issue, several countries in Europe changed names for the same reason.

For your benefit:

The origin of the word Hispania is much disputed and the evidence is based merely upon what are at best apparent resemblances and the sketchiest of other supporting evidence. One theory holds it to be of Punic derivation, from the Phoenician language of colonizing Carthage. It may derive from i (meaning island), and shfanim (of the Semitic root S-P-N), literally translating to "Island of the Hyrax". Another theory, proposed by the etymologist Eric Partridge in his work "Origins", is that it is of Iberian derivation and that it is to be found in the pre-Roman name for Seville, Hispalis, which strongly hints of an ancient name for the country of *Hispa, an Iberian or Celtic root whose meaning is now lost, although it may instead derive from Heliopolis (Greek for "City of the Sun").

Substituting "Spanish" for Hispanicus or "Hispanic", or "Spain" for Hispania, though sometimes done by historians, is anachronistic and can be misleading, since the borders of modern Spain do not coincide with those of the Roman province of Hispania, or of the Visigothic Kingdom which briefly succeeded it. Although the Latin term Hispania was often used during Antiquity and the High Middle Ages as a geographical name for the Iberian Peninsula, its cognates "Spain" and "Spanish" have become increasingly associated with the Kingdom of Spain alone, after its formation in the 15th century under the Catholic Kings.

From Wikipedia for "Hispania"

There is little evidence in what you wrote actually. Conejos... hmmm.

Jay said...

TI, Ken:

guys, excuse this post stroke survivor's memory. But wasn't the RP named after Philip II? I don't seem to recall him being elected as aHoly roman Emperor; I am trying to recall --wasn't it Philip III, and Carlos I and Carlos III?

anyway, Ken got me hungry at midnight. too sleepy to mess around with " google". Conejos Asado sound good with some Amontillado or Olorosco just now.

Ole!

Jay said...

TI:

That is precisely why I am being facetious.

Whatever Marcos and the myth makers for " Filipinismo" wanted, and afare still trying to achieve, a " national identity" for filipinos, there ain't no such thang. That is why Macoy started the Maharlika myth.

We all must agree on , and stipulate certain commonalities which present day citizens have, and which can be derived from their various regions, or locales, both pre, and during the colonial period. and from those commonalities build on the " myths".

You yourself have pointed out the various differences between local inhabitants, and such differences, IMHO, must be subordinated, or even sacrificed, for the good of nation building and creation of a mindset that will be inclusive and respectful of eac CITIZEN. Otherwise, we break into individualism again, and the " its all about me" syndrome.

anyway, regardless of my background and ancestry, I've lways believed I was a Filipino; But because of my experiences, now more firmly believe I am just a regular Joe Blow human being.

tumbagang isda said...

Marcos did not create that myth, I did find that Chirino is the first to mention that, in his descriptions of the Tagalogs, however, there is something that he missed in his European way of describing Philippines society. Of course this is all he can do, make comparisons to Europeans!

Filipino do need a "National identity", however in so doing Nationalism become a homogeny, a big mistake that all nationalists make, this is the problem with many countries before, and that problem still exist. National identity has nothing to do with regional or ethnic identity, none of that has to disappear.

Funny, you only feel more Filipino and still claim your ethnicity only when you are outside of the country, because no one is telling you suddenly that to be a Filipino, you have to be one those "Lowland Christian" Hispanized indigeno. Guess what, from readings all those observations the Spaniards, colonial masters wrote all the way to the 1800's, these "Lowland Christian" Hispanized indigeno is such a small group mostly in cities, and there aren't that many cities in the Philippines then.

This is in a very real sense a 20th century word play.

Bangkaw said...

There is nothing to reclaim because nothing has been lost. Most (New)
Filipinos forget about the hispanic identity that they also have.
Thats why there is no deep loyalty to the identity that has been
fashioned by history because they pick and choose even if they what
they pick is a product of their fancy. The exotic rather than
"authenicity. " And thats part of the cultural amnesia. Especially when
anti-hispanic Filipinos think it is about Spanish colonialism. They
deny the cultural part the hispanic part of our identity.

Rizalistas always make a point of Jose Rizal's writings criticizing
19th century Spain. And yet for all their anti-Spanish sentiments
Rizal has not once declared he is Anti-Spanish or anti-hispanic (since
most "nationalists" could not tell the difference). The native
identity that Rizal has espoused is an ethnic identity thats equal to
white Spaniards, and that is, the Filipino - A hispanized indigeno.

As for values, well, that depends on a whole host of other factors.
Like cultural conditioning. Whatever corruption there is our fault and
no one else.

The Filipino will vanish until this foolishness stops. Thats the
consequence of a mindset that could not go beyond the alibata and the
nipa hut as the sole standard for native. Rather than totality its
narrow mindedness in the name of false decolonization.

The truth is the native identity is what we are now. A product of the
centuries. But the lies must go on and we must continue living in lala
land.

Filipinos are utterly ignorant of who they are and thus the wasted
effort to seek out and invent what's "native."

What a waste of time. All they are doing is destroying the Filipino
identity in place of something unFilipino.

tumbagang isda said...

You are missing something here..
Fact, all our history books has little about the pre-Hispanic Philippines, in fact some books even claims that we have no history until the Spaniards came, this is something that Rizal tried to correct, that is why he searched for the same writings we are searching for.
Some historians wanted to use the coming of the Americans as much more importan in our history, which is also a piece of junk information.

Only you will insert Hispanized into the mix, to me none of that is important, but it does not involved diminishing the contributions Hispanic culture had done..

The problem is your fear of true decolonization, the same fears that I hear from Americans, it has nothing to do with culture, it has nothing to do with going back into the old ways, it has to do with other things, like what Latvia is doing in their "decolonization" .. let me make it clear here.
Latvian heroes through centuries were local and others, Poles, Germans, Russians, Finns Lithuanians. .etc..
But each one of these are called Latvians, they are all Latvian heroes and died as one.

This is something for you to think about.

tumbagang isda said...

Ok.. You are telling me that this is nothing but a conception?
Hmmm...

The thing is this:
Our languages, are all indigenous, the fact that it had been indigenized and even alien settlers assimilated became part of that indigenous culture is proof. The fact that Spanish descent Filipinos can never be recognized as Spanish by Spaniards is another proof.

One reason why I insist that Filipino identity is Filipino, no matter what anyone says about it.

Another thing is that not all Filipinos today call themselves Filipinos years before, in fact when I left Philippines, the Tausugs never called themselves Filipinos inspite what the government calls them, things change..
There were tribes that uses cowry shells as currency, but this is mostly in Papua, Borneo and some parts of remote areas in Southeast Asia, not just Philippines, however, if you think about it cowry shells are the most collectable and rare ones can bring thousands of dollars among collectors even today. So this is an amusing part of societies. Something for you to think about.

I don't like using the word "Indigenous" on identifying different ethnic groups in the Philippines, because everyone if you think about the hundreds of years and thousands of years difference between each makes all of them "Indigenous" .

The Negritoes having settled before the Austronesians who arrived approximately 6,000 years ago, the Spaniards 333 years ago, makes all of them part of the Philippines social landscape, however, I am not going to belittle the contributions to the present society of each group.

Dakilang Lahi = Maharlika, fine, this may be the meaning. But I wouldn't accept that as a valid name for the country, we are a democracy, not a monarchy, it is the fact that pre-Hispanic Philippines was Feudalistic when Europeans arrived made it easy for them to gain acceptance of a system that abused them, where well organized revolts is to remove the Spaniards in tax collection from the common tao, and not so that the common tao is benefitted.

The common tao is downtrodden right at the beginning, by these Maharlikas, Datus, Lakans and Rajahs.

Jay said...

TI:

That would be a matter of perspective. To the nationalistic Pinoy, he would say we have a history; to a Hispanized or westernized one, probably not. But what history and who recorded it is what we need to see, as evidence is based today only on what is available as a documented observation. We may yet discover new evidence, and so history from that perspective willl again evolve.

anyway, What about Arab, or Muslim records about the islands pre 1521? The ancient Chinese records are intersting as well; can you tell us what the Arab / Muslim traders or religious voyagers said?

BTW, interestingly, in the Chinese records of the Han period, at the time of Julius Caesar, when Crassus was defeated by the Parthians in the battle of xxxx? near what is now known as Tehran, Iran, there was a brief refernce that was interesting. The Han Princeling who observed that battle on the side of the Parthians who won, ( I think the battle was called " Carrae"), the Roman legions were beaten but not wiped out. the Han Princeling thought the romans magnificent fighters though, and asked t he Parthian King for an entire cohort of captured Roman legionaires as a gift he wanted to take back to China for the Han Emperor. This was because the whole area was part of the Silk road from China to Europe / Constantinopkle at the time.

One can only guess what happened to those Roman Legionaires when they arrived in China. I like to think some of t hem are now memorialized as some of the figures we see in the Terra Cota warriors. did you ever see a display of those figures? Magnificent.

Jay said...

Yes, I am aware of the originator of the myth. But do you disagree that it was Marcos who brought that concept of myth making around " Filipinismo" to its apogee? Look: Marcos commanded the creation of governmental entities such as the Barangay, Kabataang Barangay, the names of subdivisions as Sanguniang Panlalawigan; Bayan, etc. the creation of SandiganBayan, the TanodBayan, etc.....the use of " Filipino type architecture, look at buldings such as the ones in the Roxas Blvd. reclamation area, the National Arts Center on Mt. Makilng, etc... The promotion of Filipino songs, materials, handicrafts through Imeelda ( " Akoy ay Filipino was commissioned by Imelda) I can go on and on, let me recalll. BTW, I also was an elected Kabataang Barangay Chairman during my teens, and we were indoctrinated by the likes of Nilo Tayag and Luis Taruc. Do you think that effort should be praised, or condemned, as a legitimate effort to forge a national identity, to bring pride to " The Filipino people"?

Or would you have preferred to have us remain, or break down to our litttle " Tribo Tribo" mentality?

I like to think that despite the negatives, Marcos was okay in that regard. It would be extremely funny to ask the New People's Army, " What people" is your army deriving its power/ authority from? If we remained just a bunch of Tribes.

Hmmmmmm.There can always be a balance. I believe the RP should press for strengthening or even helping forge an identity even if through creation only of myths, if it will end in the well being and progress of future generatons. The nitpickers can always stand aside.

The Catholic Church was not averse to have adopted ancient pagan Roman, and Greek rites, beliefs, rituals, festivals, for the political purpose of incorporating more believers into the Church. The Synod of Niscea is one of these examples.

And many of u s are in that Church today, despite knowing what needed to be done. To me, the issue is always, what is the objective? and the answer is to do whatever it takes to achieve the objective.

My ideal " citizens handbook" is the Japanese " Nihon Kokutai"; I have always thought the RP has needed that as a basic tool for education as the Filipinos still need to be on the same page. I find it extremely amusing about all the demands for " the Rule of Law", when the ones making the demand cant even agree on their nationhood, and what the Consitution provides. A common understanding of the law will come out of a common understanding of who we are, and what we want as a people.

tumbagang isda said...

Ibn Batuta comes to mind as he wrote a travelogue to all places where Islam exist, unfortunately that means he only reached Islam Sulu. To me his writing is not that great because he is religious. I still need to find the whole text though, I only found excerpts here and there.

It took me a while to find Chao Ju Kua's writings as translated by a British writer in Hong Kong, I don't know how accurate his translation was.

It is a fact that when there was no Philippines, linguistics groups were divided among tribes and clans, interestingly we, inspite of the hundreds of years of "Hispanization" this is still somewhat similar, so to understand these societies is to understand where we are now, and resolve age old social problems.
Another interesting thing is that the descendants of the Spaniards mostly became as native as the rest in how they are in the society, most of them became the symbols of the old pre-Hispanic heirarchies and feudal lords.. not datu anymore but Señor, or Don, how natives view them is the same as the old. In the Philippines nothing had change.

The common tao are still the "Unwashed", the ignorant, the uneducated.

tumbagang isda said...

Balance mean you have nitpick a bit. I do not believe in myths.

We are already tribo-tribo, if we accept that, we can move forward with that in mind. I do agree that Marcos has good things in mind when he tried his best to mobilize a sense of nationalism, this is not bad, but what he kept forgetting is that nationalism is already brewing, and brewing everywhere. He could've tapped all of that, instead he only tapped the one he liked. I forgot the group's name..

The objective should be uniting all the fractious groups, if you can remember that there were several socialist groups as well as communist groups and several pro-American, and pro-Hispanic groups as well then.

Filipinos had never had a rigid, stern society, well, probably among few Ilocanos, yes, but not the majority. We do not share the miliaristic social structure of Japan, where unity was paid with samurai blood in their numerous civil wars.

I grew up believing in the country, honor, God and country and all that. But I also grew up in the 60's where I am allowed to question any authority, my parents even stressed that this is my inherent right. I learned how to read the lines on what government issued "news", however, they are getting so sophisticated, it is becoming more difficult.

Filipinos aren't nationalistic at all today, in fact, most will not recognize what a Filipino is. A Filipino is not just Tagalogs, it is composed of many different peoples, who speaks many different languages and enjoy many different cultures, it is a lot more fun that way, to enjoy that differences as Filipinos.

In the US we say "E Pluribus Unum", where the culture is mostly homogenized by popular media and culture, it is changing, but in changing there is always a backlash "going back" and for some going back means to the white cowboy hat and horses when other cultures is not recognized as Americans, even though these cowboys hats, chaps, saddles vests were Mexican in origin and not even close to the white-Anglo- Saxon world.

"E Pluribus Unum" is more apt to the Filipino because they do share a common ground while still for centuries are different from each other.

Jay said...

TI:

That is fascinating. Sayang, I am unable to visually access that material.

But you guys are teaching me a lot, and this is a very enjoyable and informative thread.

Thanks much; keep it coming.

Jay said...

p.s. TI, re your second point on the Datu/ Cacique/ common Tao, I would ascribe that to human nature. It's universal that some kind of " Patron", or " heiarchichal " system exist, and I don't know if that would be Human nature per se; or simply nature working.

My personal observaations on the fact that while the world and history may be dynamic and progressive, there are some aspects of human nature that strangely remain sstatic.

For example, have you gone through Thucydides? In reading his Opus Magnum, " the History of the Pelopponesian War", ( no I just read it in the English translation; no Greek for me), there wre certain issues and solutions thetee used by the Athenians and Spartans for their ends.

and seemingly, throughout history to this day, war has been approached using those solutions, as the same issues arise.

there were assasinations of leaders, starvation, blockade, mass rape, pillaging, the confrontation between liberal Democrats vs. convervatives, suicide killers. Issues today that existed during the time of ancient Greece.

George Santayana was truly right in his aphorism.

Jay said...

TI:

I agree, you should be able to do that in a real Democracy. But IMHO, the RP is dtill under developed, and what we are addressing here is the issue of the need for unity as a matter of national development.

You mayuy be right about Japan, but on the other hand, Japan is also regionalistic with accents, put downs of others from other prefectures and island, the bloody conquest of local Ainus in the North, and the Ryukyuans of OKinawa. the rivalry between the Kanto plain and the Kansai Plais people of Osaka and Edo on Honshu. But as they were never colonized, they realized the need for unity themselves very early.

On your other point, I am aware of the groups such as the Aguming ng TagapagObra, the Partido Koumnista Pilipinas, Partido Socialista, Partido Federalista, etc. and the work of Atty. rustia, the Tarucs, the Lavas, yes. I am not sure that they would have folded into or worked with then with the national governments which existed since the Commonwealth began, as even today, they really don't want to work with government,and are playing a game. Well, the Aguming existed even under the Americans and was created in the 1920's, and there were killings and labor strikes with the sugar and rice workers then, up to tday. Fact is, Camp Olivas was named after Capt. Olivas of the PC whom workers killed at the Pasudeco mill. BTW, my lolo defended many laborers in court in those days, though he was a Contitutional Convention delegate from 2nd District of Tarlac and was a landowner. His alalays were sometimes Huks; they protected our home while they burned the Tar;ac PC Camp Makabulos in 1950.
Early on, we were taught as kkids you had to work and live with EVERYBODY, even if you can only socialize with few.
It seems that various RP government since 1946 of whatever level of sincerity did try to accommodat, at varying degrees, but there are, and will always be people and groups of peoople who willl want to have things their way. /But if in a real working Democracy, all stakeholders can have a voice, and their platforms and plans submitted to the people to select and vote on, that is the test.

What we have now, whatever its flaws, is the result of what is still contested to be the product of an electioin held in May 2004. The next test will be for all stakeholders to be educated on the issues, and who will be elected to run the country in 2010.

Now, those guys in the CPP/ NDf, as well as the MILF and MNLf, should gear up for the challenge of the free market of ideas as well. To me, if they have the majority vote of the people, then so be it.

Let us just help ensure that the process truly is fair, open, and clean. The media and information machines are wide open for the use of that discussion. We already know what the issues are.

I believe the electorate will all abide with the results of2010, and avibide by the results. That will allow true peaceand prosperity to occur.

tumbagang isda said...

Yes, these are normal during those times, we are no longer in those times.
We as well as others need to change.

We know that social structures change for the benefit of the majority who holds power.

The farmlands who feed the people were always being raided, this is common everywhere, so with consent of the common tao, they have to find protection. This is the reason for the heirarchies, these Lords, Datus what have you did not appear without reason, this solution was proper for that time.

Not in our time.

tumbagang isda said...

Japan has a long history of violence, where a question from the common tao is not entertained and even greeted with a blade to remove the head, depending upon the mood of those who lords over them, the Feudal relationship of serf and lord in Japan did not really disappear until the second half of the century, and you can thank MacArthur for that, he restructured the society, if you think about it, liberalizing it worked for them.

You see, Japan had a caste system similar to India and one inherits this position. Some still carry this prejudices today but not well documented since the majority now frowns on it.

I think the problem in the Philippines is this feeling that they should develop in a hurry, in this they make mistakes and the approach to development is wrong because of that. There is no structures to support any of their efforts, these structures have to built up first, and then move on forward from there.

The structures I am talking about here happens to be social ones, Democracy had to be a workable one first, each region should be represented properly, to give them a voice, then work on the super structures of roads, etc..

My uncles who fought under Taruc during WW2 has nothing bad to say against Taruc, and I was surprised that Taruc was friendly with Doña Luisita and funded him during the war, in fact even my grandmother supported him while in Apalit, Pampanga. They know he was communist, but all of them are looking for the same thing we all looking for: justice and change.

The road to progress involves many things if you want it to be stable and continuity existing, roots had to take place, this is where Marcos is right.

Jay said...

TI:

Elections under Democracies which began under the Greeks, and which are stil held today, is just a version of the " Datu, Cacique, Patron" way.

Today, it is just the means to that end which is in universal use.
But think about it, it is still a way that man ( sexist ito, so let's say, " and women") have chosen the men they want to lead, decide, and resolve their problems, and guide the group through difficult time, or toward the " future".

In mymind, the weapons may have changed through the millenia of human experience, but the tactics and strategic objectivds are continuing to this day. At bottom, men will still seek men whom they think ccan lead the pack, family, tribe, Barrio, Barangay, Congessional District, Province, Party, Region, or Nation=State. It is human evolution.

However, throughout the history of mankind, men have killed, fought, competed, cheated their way, and, for better or worse, submitted themselves to the people to choose whether or not they are worthy as leaders, Kings, , whatever.
Let see how that exercise/ process works in the US in 2008 and the RP in 2010. Like I said, tactics may have changed,with the modern day rules under election laws, but the bottom objective for that purpose is the same. Who will lead, ( or lord) it over us? " Sa itaas ba tayo, o sa ibaba?"
The simplest way to illustrate:

Today we can see the battle of ideas and programs between the Democratic liberals, and Neoconservatives in the US. ) thankflly there is no killling_.) But this clash existed between Traditonally conservative, Autocratic, militaristic Sparta, and the democratic Athenians. The issues are still the same today as they were several thousand years ago.

And frighteningly, to a larger extent, this is the clash between the conservative, fundamentalist, closed minded Muslims, vs. the liberal western world.

ah, well that is the story of humankind,no? And I am not a PPP thinker or political science1-1 professor either. Just an observer of men.

Bangkaw said...

If pre-hispanic history are missing then how come we are aware that it
exists?

Technically, before the Spanish there was no Filipino history because the Filipino didnt exist as an identity yet. There was pre-Filipino, pre-Hispanic history and that would be accurate. Unfortunately we are a long way from being them though we inherited a better part of the pre-hispanic cultures in our current identity.

There are those who keep on insisting that hispanization has
evaporated like a bubble and yet empirical evidence has refuted that
opinion many times. Hispanization is still a major part of Filipino
culture and denying it doesnt make it untrue.

I often mention this aspect in Filipino culture because this is
the part thats most maligned and misunderstood. Filipinos have to come full circle because the hispanized part is the other end of our pre-hispanic part. Otherwise lets not call ourselves Filipinos
because we are only kidding ourselves. If this is the case I will not only call for a renaming but insist on fighting for a country of my own and that is Mindanao.

The anti-hispanic haters can take their pick but as I have often said
it is not us, the bisaya, who are undermining the republic. I'll die
first before I accept a republica ng katagalogan or whatever name they come with.

Jay said...

TI:

I am well aware of Japanese history, and we should look at how they developed their system contemporaenously a with what was happening in the islands of what has become the " Republic of the Philippines" since 1946. And yes, I am well aware of the Macarthur Consitution and all that. But you see, the difference lies in how the Japanese decided what system would be suited to their needs, or how their people were forced to accede to the Shogun and Mikado, later the americans to where they are today, as compared to us Indios.

Without bblaming anyone, what are we doing tto achieve political matrity and development? To me, the faster we inform, educate, and show the electorate what their options are, and give them the choice, the better.

I despise the political gimmickry and methods some now use, specially those who are just doing self aggrandizement and promotion, even here in this forum.
enough of " it's about me". It should really be " what is good for the Nation, or the
state"?

I am stil observing Obama. Hillary IMHO is all about herself. John
edwards is geninely for the people and the nation.
this is 2008.
and I still have to see anyone in the
rP who truly is desirous of the welfare of the Nation/ State. Unfortunately, in the
rP, it still mostly every man for himself.

ah,,,,,rule of Law, Majority
rule,
social Justice,
equal Opportunities can these be truly achieved in the
rP?

tumbagang isda said...

Democracies today is different from what the Greeks envisioned, in fact I don't know if they can even recognize it, remember that it is only for Greek men, even the others they consider non-Greeks even though they speak a Greek dialect, i.e: Macedonians, aren't included. A highly exclusive club.

I am not a political scientist myself, I am like you, an observer of humankind. I believe in equality of people, and from there, the competition may start. I don't mind competition at all, in fact I think this is great but all things being equal, everybody has to have that chance to compete. Once you disenfranchise a group, you remove that chance for a group to compete.

We widened the meaning of democracy, we took the rights of kings and made it ours, and that is the way I like it.

Bobby Reyes said...

It may interest you to know that I wrote an article entitled,

_The Great Debate among Botomites of Whether to Change the Name of the Philippine Archipelago or Not_ (http://www.mabuhayradio.com/content/view/1761/51/)

If you cannot access the hyperlink, please just go to the "Latest" section of the _www.mabuhayradio. com_ (http://www.mabuhayradio.com) on the top left side of its Front Page and click on the article.

Happy reading and have a happier weekend,

Mabuhay,

Bobby M. Reyes
Editor
_www.mabuhayradio. com_ (http://www.mabuhayradio.com)

Ric Vil Hori said...

Gumawa ako ng blog para sa bagay na ito. Sang-ayon akong ipagpalit ang pangalan ng Pilipinas sa Maharlika. Gumawa ako ng research at nalaman ko na ang ibig sabihin ng Maharlika sa Sanskrit ay "noble creation", taliwas sa sinasabi ng damuhong 'scholar' kuno na ang ibig sabihin ay large phallus (from maha lingam). Whoever that 'scholar' is, managot siya at ang Time magazine (it was printed in one of hteir issues) sa damaging inaccuracy na ginawa nila.

Yung kulang sa panindigan ay kuntento na sa pangalang Pilipinas at dahil sa mediocrity ng pag-iisip nila sila ay naging manipulated subconsciously to the colonial mindset of being subject to foreign entity. Their minds cannot be truly free.

Hindi lahat ng mga tao sa bansang ito ay may ganyang pananaw na kuntentong maging subject o alipin ng foreign interests. Mas karapat-dapat silang maging Maharlikan.

http://maharlikan.blogspot.com

Papa Osmubal said...

This is in response to Mr. Eusebio Dizon:
Sir, we mean the end-meaning (current meaning-- the loftiness and dignity it connotes) of the word Maharlika. With that said, it is not its sexual connotation or whatchamacallit that we are trying to tackle it. I have a little background in linguistics and I don't want us deal with etymologies here (leave that to the scholars and researchers, in the classrooms, in the walls that enclose them). Your argument flaunts your profession or whereever you are coming from. So don't sort of blame ordinary people for not doing their homework to research on things they clearly know. Things that are already clear and understood should be left as they are and whatever scholarly and academic aspects they may have should be left investigated in the campus. But then I would rather be called "burat" or "titi" than Pilipino, because I know that doesn't slap the truth on me that I have to unwittingly or wittingly honor a foreign king whose subjects tried to obliterate my own race. And those words are native; they are from me, and they are not given to me be a colozer.

JM said...

Below is an "excerpt" of the History of the Philippines contained in Wikipedia.org

Does your proposal involve changing all historical records on Planet Earth about the Philippines?

Unless you will be able to do that, is there really any point about denying the actual history of the 7,017 islands?

It is true that Spain colonized the Philippines for 333 years. No amount of denial will change that.

How about the American Occupation of the Philippines? If you want to deny the history of Spanish colonization of the archipelago, shouldn't you include in your denial the American Occupation too?

In which case, you have to stop using the English Language. Then, you have to change the name of your organization from Brotherhood of Destiny (BROOD) in order to stop "brooding"

brood·ing /ˈbrudɪŋ/

–adjective
1. preoccupied with depressing, morbid, or painful memories or thoughts: a brooding frame of mind.
2. cast in subdued light so as to convey a somewhat threatening atmosphere: Dusk fell on the brooding hills.


What is most important at this point in our country's history is to focus on how to change the illegitimate and immoral governance by Gloria Macapagal Arroyo, her cohorts, her minions and her "handlers" in the Executive, Legislative and Judicial Branches of the Philippine Government.

What is more important than being in denial about the history of our country and brooding about the name "Philippines" is for each and every Filipino to stop thinking, feeling, and acting like "slaves", whether just like the "Alipin" of pre-Spanish Philippines, the "Indios" during the Spanish era, and the "Little Brown Americans" produced by American Occupation.

The servile or slavishly submissive orientation of the majority of the estimated 90 Million Filipinos shown by the lack of collective righteous indignation about the "Abomination of the Filipino People" who continue to stay in Malacanang is what must be stopped immediately.

Shen said...

Sana mas nagresearch ka pa kasi BROOD naman ang tern at hindi brooding. Yan ang problema sa atin para masira ang anuman we look for things and not dwell on the issue. I did not write the article to deny things what I have written is the fact that a change in name is also a reclamation of our pride as a people... di naman kailangang baguhin ang history at wala naman ako nakikitang masama sa pagpapalit ng name maliban na nga lang sa syempre maninibago ang iba.

Eto mga meaning ng BROOD kung yan ang hanap mo... pero in our choice of acronym we choose it because we are in the org one family trying to help one another and make a difference and besides this is my personal stand...

1. think moodily or anxiously about something
2. What comes out of an egg; The young of certain animals, especially a group of young birds or fowl hatched at one time and cared for by the same mother; The children in one family; To keep an egg warm to make it hatch; To dwell upon moodily and at length; to protect

May mga negative meanings that can be tied to it but of course those will only be used by people who tries to discredit someone.

Philip said...

May nagsasabi na ang "lika" ay hindi nanggaling sa salitang "lingam" kundi sa salitang "lokah" na ang kahulugan ay planeta o malawak na lupain. Kaya kung susumahin, ang maharlika ay nangangahulugan ng "Dakilang Lupain".

kasuy said...

Maharloka: (Sanskrit) "Plane of greatness."


From mahas, "greatness, might, power, glory." Also called the Devaloka, this fourth highest of the seven upper worlds is the mental plane, realm of anahata chakra.

http://www.soulcast.com/post/show/136524/PHILIPPINES-FROM-A-COSMIC-VIEWPOINT:-STARGATE,-MAHARLOKA,-PLANETARY-CHI

nadine said...

Madaming mga lumabas na pangalan ukol sa ating bansa at napansin kong madaming pilipino ang nagkumento rito. ibig sabihin ay talagang may "PAKI" sila sa ating bayan.

*napansin ko lamang na masyado na tayong nadala ng teksto o "text" kaya yoong "Ano" mo na nakasaad diyaan ay naging "anU" :D

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Ka Silaw said...

Ang pagbabago ng pangalan ng ating bansa ay sadyang mapangahas at sasalungat sa pakay ng mga dayuhan mananakop at dayuhang paniniwala na nagpapalabo ng ating pananaw sa buhay. Ngunit ang katutuhang ay di kailan man matatakpan ng hindi likas na kaugalian sapagkat ito'y pagyurak ng ating lahi. Ang adhikaing papalitan na ang pangalan ng ating inang bayan pabalik sa dakilang "MAHARLIKA" ay tunay na angkop sa tawag ng panahon, upang tuluyan nang makamtan ang kasarilan at iwaksi ang sukabang pag-uugali na nagwasak sa ating pagkakaisa bilang kapatiran. Panahon na ang paninindigan at ipaglalaban ang pamanang karapantan, mabuhay ayon sa kadakilaan ng lahing kayumanggi.